>>>>>John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: >>>>>: Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog >>>>>: switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper
>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed >>>>>but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the >>>>>MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes.
>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself >>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to >>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all.
>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the >>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a >>>> few weeks.
>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch >>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The >>>> datasheets are horrible about that.
>>>Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got >>>no answer from them either about it.
>>>[...]
>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're >> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I >> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately >> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before >> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to >> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students >> breaking concrete beams.
>Thanks, but we use the LCA710.
>"Arc Free with no snubbing circuits" ... "can be used to replace >mechanical relays" implied to me that it could switch inductive loads >with no snubbing circuits... But of course they don't precisely say >that. And they don't, for very long.
Gosh, that sounds almost as if someone might not be telling the entire truth.
I'm digitizing the voltage and currents around the SSR, 100K samples/second, so I know what's going on. The question was to come up with an algorithm (running on a 100 MHz ARM) that opens things to protect the SSR and some stuff in series, in case the customer decides to hook us up to a 100 volt, zillion amp bus or something. So I had to figure out the destructo-energy of these SSRs and some 1206 resistors. I sort of enjoy blowing things up.
>>>>>(I'm just tired of the snipping back and forth... I should have just >>>>>kept my mouth shut and moved on.)
>>>>>George H.
>>>>>> John- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>Just try injecting technical riffs - braininstorming in public - into >>>>the hen-clucking OT personal rants. Not only does that steer us back >>>>on topic, it annoys the hell out of some people who really deserve >>>>being annoyed.
>>>--- >>>Like this one?:
>>>I am so sick of grey, white, black, silver, and repulsive >>>pearl-colored cars. You can drive for blocks around here and see >>>nothing but asphalt-colored cars. When I saw that true-red Audi for >>>sale, I had to have it.
>>>That Mercedes is a decent shade of red, sort of arterial blood color. >>>I've started to see a few new cars on the street that are actual >>>colors, not just midnight blue or mud red, but *colors*. Maybe things >>>are turning around.
>>>Those Germans sure know how to make cars. 0-60 in 3.7 seconds isn't >>>bad at all. That's 0.75 Gs, if I did the math right.
>>>John
>>>or this one?:
>>>Nobody is going to do anything serious about CO2. And maybe we >>>shouldn't anyhow.
>>Absolutely. These are real-world objective issues,
>--- >What's objective about:
>"I am so sick of grey, white, black, silver, and repulsive >pearl-colored cars. You can drive for blocks around here and see >nothing but asphalt-colored cars. When I saw that true-red Audi for >sale, I had to have it.
>That Mercedes is a decent shade of red, sort of arterial blood color. >I've started to see a few new cars on the street that are actual >colors, not just midnight blue or mud red, but *colors*. Maybe things >are turning around." ???
>Plus, it certainly seems to be a contradiction of your suggestion to:
>"Just try injecting technical riffs - braininstorming in public - into >the hen-clucking OT personal rants. Not only does that steer us back >on topic, it annoys the hell out of some people who really deserve >being annoyed." >---
>>about *things*, >>likely of interest to many engineers, especially as diversions from >>the psychotic personality-issue cluckings of bizarre old farts.
>--- >Regardless of your penchant for posting off-topic material here, >from your negative comments re. things "off topic" one would certainly >think you'd be aware that this here newsgroup is for the purpose of >discussing electronics design/designs, (hard to miss since >science.electronics.design is its name) and that you'd have the >courtesy of posting your hen-clucking personal rants to a newsgroup >where they'd be on-topic.
Be a paragon and say something interesting about electronics. Or something interesting, period.
>>>>>>John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: >>>>>>: Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog >>>>>>: switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper
>>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed >>>>>>but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the >>>>>>MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes.
>>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself >>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to >>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all.
>>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the >>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a >>>>> few weeks.
>>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch >>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The >>>>> datasheets are horrible about that.
>>>>Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got >>>>no answer from them either about it.
>>>>[...]
>>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're >>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I >>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately >>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before >>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to >>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students >>> breaking concrete beams.
>>Thanks, but we use the LCA710.
>>"Arc Free with no snubbing circuits" ... "can be used to replace >>mechanical relays" implied to me that it could switch inductive loads >>with no snubbing circuits... But of course they don't precisely say >>that. And they don't, for very long.
>Gosh, that sounds almost as if someone might not be telling the entire >truth.
>I'm digitizing the voltage and currents around the SSR, 100K >samples/second, so I know what's going on. The question was to come up >with an algorithm (running on a 100 MHz ARM) that opens things to >protect the SSR and some stuff in series, in case the customer decides >to hook us up to a 100 volt, zillion amp bus or something. So I had to >figure out the destructo-energy of these SSRs and some 1206 resistors. >I sort of enjoy blowing things up.
Besides, nothing like the 'admiral's test' to actually know what's going on :) I'm surprised more people don't go for it. I think that's why we have so much easily damaged equipment about these days.
I'm looking at a little rs232 interface module that blew up -- they connect a 78L05 regulator direct to a 24V traction battery charging connector with nothing more than a series fuse, no spike or negative voltage protection. The type of plug used can allow momentary reverse voltage touch -- not enough to blow the fuse in this case, enough to blow a chip.
Replacement cost $180, imported. So I'll add some protection circuitry to the new one. Doubt I can fix the blown one, no circuit, unless only the regulator is gone. All of it tiny smd...
>>>>John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:52:53 -0700, Robert Baer >>>>> <robertb...@localnet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> John Fields wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:01:58 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>> <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 04:00:22 -0500, John Fields >>>>>>>> <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> It has to do with >>>>>>>>>> getting SI units right. Did you ever read the wiki piece on >>>>>>>>>> dimensional analysis? Do you think it is smoke and mirrors?
>>>>>>>>>> So, where did I say that charges can't generate forces? If you can't >>>>>>>>>> find such a statement, YOU are the one with emotions clouding your >>>>>>>>>> reason. >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> Nonsense.
>>>>>>>>> All it means is that its location has slipped my mind, that the >>>>>>>>> message has been deleted or, who knows??? >>>>>>>> Who knows??? I know. You are deluded or just a liar. I would never say >>>>>>>> anything so silly. >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You would, you have, and you will again, so you're the liar.
>>>>>>> "Latching relays have infinite gain." is a pretty silly thing to say, >>>>>>> yes?
>>>>>>> JF
>>>>>> I think i "made a case" that the "gain" was not too hot, using rough >>>>>> numbers for input power to switch states, and power handling capability. >>>>>> For an infinite "gain", either the power to switch states must be >>>>>> zero, and/or the power handling capability must be infinite. >>>>>> Clearly, NEITHER exists.
>>>>> Power gain is Pload/(Pcoil*DutyCycle), where Dutycycle is the fraction >>>>> of time that the coil is energized. In plain English, power gain is >>>>> averaged load power divided by averaged coil power. That has no upper >>>>> bound as duty cycle approaches zero. In, say, a home thermostat that >>>>> uses one AA battery, Dutycycle might be a few tens of PPM, which is >>>>> why the battery will last a year or two. Probably the clock/LCD run >>>>> the battery down more than the relay does.
>>>>> So the argument devolves to whether a number that is unboundedly large >>>>> can be referred to as "infinite." Go for it.
>>>>> John
>>>> By your own statement, you admit that the duty cycle IS NOT ZERO, and >>>>therefore there IS a bound.
>>>What's the bound of 1/x as x approaches zero? Name a number.
>>--- >>There is no bound, but it'll never become infinite until x = 0
>>However, in the case of a form "A" latching relay, which is what we're >>talking about but which you keep trying to sidetrack, x can never >>become zero, so the gain of the relay will always be less than >>infinite. >>---
>>>> And "duty cycle" does not cut it; if so, one could take a very large >>>>(latching, if that "helps") relay and operate it *once* using its >>>>required 200KW of power, to control one microwatt of load
>>>Or one kilowatt
>>> - and >>>>"therefore" have an absurdly large "gain" based on the "duty cycle" of >>>>almost zero.
>>>Thanks. Finally someone is beginning to see my point.
>>--- >>You're really not making a point John, all you're trying to do is >>ameliorate an earlier erroneous statement by saying,: "Well, geez, as >>long as the duty cycle's pretty small the gain will be pretty close to >>infinite."
>OK, introduce some different electronics topic, if you know of one.
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:24:34 -0700, Nunya wrote: > On Jul 23, 9:20 pm, John Larkin >> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:43:06 -0700, Rich Grise <richgr...@example.net> >> >On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:38:45 -0700, John Larkin wrote: >> >> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:30:25 -0500, John Fields >> >>>On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:52:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
>> >>>>Let's Take A Vote...
>> >> Charge is measured in coulombs. Force is measured in newtons. So how >> >> is charge "a measure of force"?
>> >What's "electromotive force?" Its units are "volts," right?
>> Now force is measured in volts? Dang, I was just getting used to >> measuring it in coulombs.
>> >What was the original question?
>> I have no idea. We're waiting for a "mathematical proof" of something, >> which might even include a statement of the problem. They often start >> out that way.
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:24:34 -0700, Nunya wrote: > On Jul 23, 9:20 pm, John Larkin >> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:43:06 -0700, Rich Grise <richgr...@example.net>
>> >What was the original question?
>> I have no idea. We're waiting for a "mathematical proof" of something, >> which might even include a statement of the problem. They often start >> out that way.
>On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:24:34 -0700, Nunya wrote: >> On Jul 23, 9:20 pm, John Larkin >>> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:43:06 -0700, Rich Grise <richgr...@example.net>
>>> >What was the original question?
>>> I have no idea. We're waiting for a "mathematical proof" of something, >>> which might even include a statement of the problem. They often start >>> out that way.
John Larkin wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:47:30 -0700, Rich Grise<richgr...@example.net> > wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:24:34 -0700, Nunya wrote: >>> On Jul 23, 9:20 pm, John Larkin >>>> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:43:06 -0700, Rich Grise<richgr...@example.net>
>>>>> What was the original question?
>>>> I have no idea. We're waiting for a "mathematical proof" of something, >>>> which might even include a statement of the problem. They often start >>>> out that way.
> Only if they are flowing, apparently. If you let them just lay around, > they get fat and lazy and lose their charge.
> John
I would say, let them spin around the nucleus forever, and maybe sometime in the near future let us capture some of that beautiful energy that is available... the easy way! :-)
> >>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: > >>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog > >>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper
> >>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed > >>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the > >>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. > >>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself > >>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to > >>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all.
> >>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the > >>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a > >>> few weeks.
> >>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch > >>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The > >>> datasheets are horrible about that. > >> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got > >> no answer from them either about it.
> >> [...]
> > I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're > > interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I > > learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately > > anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before > > it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to > > replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students > > breaking concrete beams.
> > John
> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry.
> Cheers
> Phil Hobbs
> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle > again. Brilliant.)
What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at the TV?
> -- > Dr Philip C D Hobbs > Principal > ElectroOptical Innovations > 55 Orchard Rd > Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 > 845-480-2058 > hobbs at electrooptical dot nethttp://electrooptical.net- Hide quoted text -
George Herold wrote: > On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> John Larkin wrote: >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux >>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik >>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: >>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog >>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper >>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed >>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the >>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. >>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself >>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to >>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. >>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the >>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a >>>>> few weeks. >>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch >>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The >>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. >>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got >>>> no answer from them either about it. >>>> [...] >>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're >>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I >>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately >>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before >>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to >>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students >>> breaking concrete beams. >>> John >> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry.
>> Cheers
>> Phil Hobbs
>> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle >> again. Brilliant.)
> What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at > the TV?
> George H.
I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because there haven't been any good ones lately.)
My winsome #1 daughter (who grew up with no TV in the house, courtesy of her cruel and inhuman father) bought the Nth season of Rocky & Bullwinkle on DVD, and I happened to pass by the room she was watching it in. I always did like the Confederate Corrector episode. (And #2 daughter is winsome too, in case she's reading this.)
My kids also keep me in good reading material--on Sunday, when I was getting ready to go on my monthly trip to NM, the same daughter gave me a book on the Trojan War to read on the airplane, and my son gave me his favourite Hemingway.
So yeah, I read a lot, and I've been doing more normal circuit design in the past year than I have in a looong time. Fun. :)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > George Herold wrote: > > On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs > > <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> John Larkin wrote: > >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux > >>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: > >>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: > >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik > >>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: > >>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: > >>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog > >>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper > >>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed > >>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the > >>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. > >>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself > >>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to > >>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. > >>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the > >>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a > >>>>> few weeks. > >>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch > >>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The > >>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. > >>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got > >>>> no answer from them either about it. > >>>> [...] > >>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're > >>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I > >>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately > >>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before > >>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to > >>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students > >>> breaking concrete beams. > >>> John > >> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry.
> >> Cheers
> >> Phil Hobbs
> >> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle > >> again. Brilliant.)
> > What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at > > the TV?
> > George H.
> I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. > (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because > there haven't been any good ones lately.)
> My winsome #1 daughter (who grew up with no TV in the house, courtesy of > her cruel and inhuman father) bought the Nth season of Rocky & > Bullwinkle on DVD, and I happened to pass by the room she was watching > it in. I always did like the Confederate Corrector episode. (And #2 > daughter is winsome too, in case she's reading this.)
> My kids also keep me in good reading material--on Sunday, when I was > getting ready to go on my monthly trip to NM, the same daughter gave me > a book on the Trojan War to read on the airplane, and my son gave me his > favourite Hemingway.
>The basic concept is that you can test all sorts of relationships for >plausibility by reducing their SI units. If the units don't agree, the >things can't be equal. Newtons aren't coulombs, so charge can't be >force. It's that simple.
>They taught us this our first freshman semister in EE school, in a >course called "Engineering Design Analysis" which was taught in a >small classroom by the Dean of Engineering, just to get us started on >the right track. It's been a great friend ever since.
>John
So sorry that you had to wait to get dimensional analysis until college, i got it in my sohpmore year physics in high school.
>>>(I'm just tired of the snipping back and forth... I should have just >>>kept my mouth shut and moved on.)
>>>George H.
>>>> John- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>Just try injecting technical riffs - braininstorming in public - into >>the hen-clucking OT personal rants. Not only does that steer us back >>on topic, it annoys the hell out of some people who really deserve >>being annoyed.
>--- >Like this one?:
>I am so sick of grey, white, black, silver, and repulsive >pearl-colored cars. You can drive for blocks around here and see >nothing but asphalt-colored cars. When I saw that true-red Audi for >sale, I had to have it.
>That Mercedes is a decent shade of red, sort of arterial blood color. >I've started to see a few new cars on the street that are actual >colors, not just midnight blue or mud red, but *colors*. Maybe things >are turning around.
>Those Germans sure know how to make cars. 0-60 in 3.7 seconds isn't >bad at all. That's 0.75 Gs, if I did the math right.
>John
>or this one?:
>Nobody is going to do anything serious about CO2. And maybe we >shouldn't anyhow.
Given the well known issues with getting realistic data from SPICE which has well calibrated and tested models, do you really want to trust anybody making climate predictions with models whose very theory is suspect as well? Particularly when there is no track record of model testability or calibratability?
>>Robert Baer wrote: >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:52:53 -0700, Robert Baer >>>> <robertb...@localnet.com> wrote:
>>>>> John Fields wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:01:58 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 04:00:22 -0500, John Fields >>>>>>> <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> It has to do with >>>>>>>>> getting SI units right. Did you ever read the wiki piece on >>>>>>>>> dimensional analysis? Do you think it is smoke and mirrors?
>>>>>>>>> So, where did I say that charges can't generate forces? If you can't >>>>>>>>> find such a statement, YOU are the one with emotions clouding your >>>>>>>>> reason. >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> Nonsense.
>>>>>>>> All it means is that its location has slipped my mind, that the >>>>>>>> message has been deleted or, who knows??? >>>>>>> Who knows??? I know. You are deluded or just a liar. I would never say >>>>>>> anything so silly. >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You would, you have, and you will again, so you're the liar.
>>>>>> "Latching relays have infinite gain." is a pretty silly thing to say, >>>>>> yes?
>>>>>> JF >>>>> I think i "made a case" that the "gain" was not too hot, using >>>>> rough numbers for input power to switch states, and power handling >>>>> capability. >>>>> For an infinite "gain", either the power to switch states must be >>>>> zero, and/or the power handling capability must be infinite. >>>>> Clearly, NEITHER exists.
>>>> Power gain is Pload/(Pcoil*DutyCycle), where Dutycycle is the fraction >>>> of time that the coil is energized. In plain English, power gain is >>>> averaged load power divided by averaged coil power. That has no upper >>>> bound as duty cycle approaches zero. In, say, a home thermostat that >>>> uses one AA battery, Dutycycle might be a few tens of PPM, which is >>>> why the battery will last a year or two. Probably the clock/LCD run >>>> the battery down more than the relay does.
>>>> So the argument devolves to whether a number that is unboundedly large >>>> can be referred to as "infinite." Go for it.
>>>> John
>>> By your own statement, you admit that the duty cycle IS NOT ZERO, and >>> therefore there IS a bound. >>> And "duty cycle" does not cut it; if so, one could take a very large >>> (latching, if that "helps") relay and operate it *once* using its >>> required 200KW of power, to control one microwatt of load - and >>> "therefore" have an absurdly large "gain" based on the "duty cycle" of >>> almost zero.
>>The amount of bandwidth we've been wasting recently on exactifussitudes >>like this makes arguing about angels dancing on the head of a pin seem >>positively practical.
>>Personally, I make an average of about six stupid mistakes before >>breakfast, so I'm used to it by now. Fields has a private meaning for >>the word 'force', and Larkin is using 'infinite' in a loose sense.
>As working engineers, we use a lot of terms in a loose sense. Like >charge, average, infinite, heat, "Gaussian", power factor, Q, >impedance, noise, exponential, "final", linear, all sorts of stuff >that's mathematically imprecise. Because it's good enough to make >things work. Somebody accused me here of not being a good scientist: >guilty!
>John
It is nice to hear, but no one else here abuses that difference to the extent you do, not do many others claim to be so scientific in approach as you do. Grow up some, Mr. Businessman, and acknowledge what you have become really good at: the regular manufacture of test equipment at reasonable prices.
Richard Henry wrote: > On Jul 29, 8:59 pm, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> George Herold wrote: >>> On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs >>> <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux >>>>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: >>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik >>>>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog >>>>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper >>>>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed >>>>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the >>>>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. >>>>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself >>>>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to >>>>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. >>>>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the >>>>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a >>>>>>> few weeks. >>>>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch >>>>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The >>>>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. >>>>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got >>>>>> no answer from them either about it. >>>>>> [...] >>>>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're >>>>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I >>>>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately >>>>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before >>>>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to >>>>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students >>>>> breaking concrete beams. >>>>> John >>>> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry. >>>> Cheers >>>> Phil Hobbs >>>> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle >>>> again. Brilliant.) >>> What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at >>> the TV? >>> George H. >> I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. >> (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because >> there haven't been any good ones lately.)
>> My winsome #1 daughter (who grew up with no TV in the house, courtesy of >> her cruel and inhuman father) bought the Nth season of Rocky & >> Bullwinkle on DVD, and I happened to pass by the room she was watching >> it in. I always did like the Confederate Corrector episode. (And #2 >> daughter is winsome too, in case she's reading this.)
>> My kids also keep me in good reading material--on Sunday, when I was >> getting ready to go on my monthly trip to NM, the same daughter gave me >> a book on the Trojan War to read on the airplane, and my son gave me his >> favourite Hemingway.
> Which Hemingway was the favorite?
The Old Man and the Sea. I'm saving it for the plane home on Saturday.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > George Herold wrote: > > On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs > > <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> John Larkin wrote: > >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux > >>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: > >>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: > >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik > >>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: > >>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: > >>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog > >>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper > >>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed > >>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the > >>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. > >>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself > >>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to > >>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. > >>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the > >>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a > >>>>> few weeks. > >>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch > >>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The > >>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. > >>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got > >>>> no answer from them either about it. > >>>> [...] > >>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're > >>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I > >>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately > >>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before > >>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to > >>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students > >>> breaking concrete beams. > >>> John > >> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry.
> >> Cheers
> >> Phil Hobbs
> >> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle > >> again. Brilliant.)
> > What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at > > the TV?
> > George H.
> I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. > (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because > there haven't been any good ones lately.)
If I were going to pick one movie to see from your 20+ year hiatus it would be Peter Jackson’s “Lord of the Rings”. (Assuming you have read the books.) Quite a work of love for many involved, and made for a BIG screen.
> My winsome #1 daughter (who grew up with no TV in the house, courtesy of > her cruel and inhuman father) bought the Nth season of Rocky & > Bullwinkle on DVD, and I happened to pass by the room she was watching > it in. I always did like the Confederate Corrector episode. (And #2 > daughter is winsome too, in case she's reading this.)
> My kids also keep me in good reading material--on Sunday, when I was > getting ready to go on my monthly trip to NM, the same daughter gave me > a book on the Trojan War to read on the airplane, and my son gave me his > favourite Hemingway.
I can't wait till my kids are old enough to recommend/ lend books to me. Ages 9 and 11 now, so it won’t be long. My daughter has inherited my reading bug, and has been wading through the Harry Potter books this summer. Volume seven is being saved for our vacation on Cape Cod. (We leave tomorrow!)
> So yeah, I read a lot, and I've been doing more normal circuit design in > the past year than I have in a looong time. Fun. :)
> Cheers
> Phil Hobbs
> -- > Dr Philip C D Hobbs > Principal > ElectroOptical Innovations > 55 Orchard Rd > Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 > 845-480-2058 > hobbs at electrooptical dot nethttp://electrooptical.net- Hide quoted text -
George Herold wrote: > On Jul 29, 11:59 pm, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> George Herold wrote: >>> On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs >>> <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux >>>>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: >>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik >>>>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog >>>>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper >>>>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed >>>>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the >>>>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. >>>>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself >>>>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to >>>>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. >>>>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the >>>>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a >>>>>>> few weeks. >>>>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch >>>>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The >>>>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. >>>>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got >>>>>> no answer from them either about it. >>>>>> [...] >>>>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're >>>>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I >>>>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately >>>>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before >>>>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to >>>>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students >>>>> breaking concrete beams. >>>>> John >>>> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry. >>>> Cheers >>>> Phil Hobbs >>>> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle >>>> again. Brilliant.) >>> What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at >>> the TV? >>> George H. >> I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. >> (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because >> there haven't been any good ones lately.)
> If I were going to pick one movie to see from your 20+ year hiatus it > would be Peter Jackson’s “Lord of the Rings”. (Assuming you have read > the books.) Quite a work of love for many involved, and made for a > BIG screen.
Thanks. I've read The Hobbit, TLOTR, and the Silmarillion many times--I got TLOTR in one big thick volume for Christmas when I was 16, and proceeded to read it all the way through, straight, twice. Love at first sight, and I've never wavered.
I'm a big fan of fairy stories in general--good ones, that is, ones that follow the rules of the genre and take the story seriously, *as a story*, and not merely a medium for politics, or artistic theory, or score-settling.
Tolkien's essays ]Mythopoeia' and 'On Fairy Stories' are a good way in, for people who don't know the difference between a fairy story and a straightforward fantasy on one hand, and a parody on the other. [Hint: Spenser, Lord Dunsany, Charles Williams, Tolkien, Lewis, and Peake, good, Marion Zimmer Bradley and Evangeline Walton, bad, Lloyd Alexander, somewhere in between. I enjoyed some of Bradley's other stuff back in the day, but her Arthuriad is a disaster--full of gender-feminist axe-grinding and with no sense for the story whatsoever.
#1 daughter went to Washington College, and her Tolkien professor there has a web site with a bunch of canned lectures and stuff--it's called TheTolkienProfessor.com, strange to tell. Good stuff if you're interested in that sort of thing--very engaging and fun.
I also like Homer, Virgil, and especially Dante, who is as good a theologian as he is a poet, and is therefore very widely misunderstood. Lots of folks only read the Inferno for the thrill, whereas the heart of the Commedia is the Purgatorio and Paradiso. At one time I also liked Norse sagas, but they kind of palled when I was 20 or so. It's one of my life's regrets that I quit taking Latin in grade 9, and never learned any Greek or Italian at all. I've been gradually learning Middle English (one day I hope to be able to actually write it), and am picking away at a little bit of Anglo-Saxon, though nothing serious. I have a number of AS texts printed with the original on the left-hand pages and a translation on the right. Plus I have all this fun technical stuff to do, that I usually talk about here. So I rarely get bored--except when watching moving pictures for longer than about 15 minutes, which will do it every time.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
> <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > > George Herold wrote: > > > On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs > > > <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > > >> John Larkin wrote: > > >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux > > >>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: > > >>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: > > >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik > > >>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: > > >>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: > > >>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog > > >>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper > > >>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed > > >>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the > > >>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. > > >>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself > > >>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to > > >>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. > > >>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the > > >>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a > > >>>>> few weeks. > > >>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch > > >>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The > > >>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. > > >>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got > > >>>> no answer from them either about it. > > >>>> [...] > > >>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're > > >>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I > > >>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately > > >>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before > > >>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to > > >>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students > > >>> breaking concrete beams. > > >>> John > > >> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry.
> > >> Cheers
> > >> Phil Hobbs
> > >> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle > > >> again. Brilliant.)
> > > What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at > > > the TV?
> > > George H.
> > I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. > > (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because > > there haven't been any good ones lately.)
> If I were going to pick one movie to see from your 20+ year hiatus it > would be Peter Jackson’s “Lord of the Rings”. (Assuming you have read > the books.) Quite a work of love for many involved, and made for a > BIG screen.
I fell asleep in all three.
Beautiful Mind, Schindler's List, Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby all won Academy Awards in that period and are on my must-see list.
<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > Richard Henry wrote: > > On Jul 29, 8:59 pm, Phil Hobbs > > <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> George Herold wrote: > >>> On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs > >>> <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >>>> John Larkin wrote: > >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux > >>>>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: > >>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: > >>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik > >>>>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: > >>>>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog > >>>>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper > >>>>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed > >>>>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the > >>>>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. > >>>>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself > >>>>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to > >>>>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. > >>>>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the > >>>>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a > >>>>>>> few weeks. > >>>>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch > >>>>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The > >>>>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. > >>>>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got > >>>>>> no answer from them either about it. > >>>>>> [...] > >>>>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're > >>>>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I > >>>>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately > >>>>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before > >>>>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to > >>>>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students > >>>>> breaking concrete beams. > >>>>> John > >>>> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry. > >>>> Cheers > >>>> Phil Hobbs > >>>> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle > >>>> again. Brilliant.) > >>> What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at > >>> the TV? > >>> George H. > >> I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. > >> (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because > >> there haven't been any good ones lately.)
> >> My winsome #1 daughter (who grew up with no TV in the house, courtesy of > >> her cruel and inhuman father) bought the Nth season of Rocky & > >> Bullwinkle on DVD, and I happened to pass by the room she was watching > >> it in. I always did like the Confederate Corrector episode. (And #2 > >> daughter is winsome too, in case she's reading this.)
> >> My kids also keep me in good reading material--on Sunday, when I was > >> getting ready to go on my monthly trip to NM, the same daughter gave me > >> a book on the Trojan War to read on the airplane, and my son gave me his > >> favourite Hemingway.
> > Which Hemingway was the favorite?
> The Old Man and the Sea. I'm saving it for the plane home on Saturday.
> Cheers
> Phil Hobbs
> -- > Dr Philip C D Hobbs > Principal > ElectroOptical Innovations > 55 Orchard Rd > Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 > 845-480-2058 > hobbs at electrooptical dot nethttp://electrooptical.net
Good choice. Another I liked was True at First Light, which was released after his death, completed from his notes and papers by his wife and son.
<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >George Herold wrote: >> On Jul 29, 11:59 pm, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>> George Herold wrote: >>>> On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs >>>> <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux >>>>>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: >>>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik >>>>>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog >>>>>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper >>>>>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed >>>>>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the >>>>>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. >>>>>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself >>>>>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to >>>>>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. >>>>>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the >>>>>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a >>>>>>>> few weeks. >>>>>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch >>>>>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The >>>>>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. >>>>>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got >>>>>>> no answer from them either about it. >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're >>>>>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I >>>>>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately >>>>>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before >>>>>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to >>>>>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students >>>>>> breaking concrete beams. >>>>>> John >>>>> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry. >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle >>>>> again. Brilliant.) >>>> What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at >>>> the TV? >>>> George H. >>> I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. >>> (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because >>> there haven't been any good ones lately.)
>> If I were going to pick one movie to see from your 20+ year hiatus it >> would be Peter Jackson’s “Lord of the Rings”. (Assuming you have read >> the books.) Quite a work of love for many involved, and made for a >> BIG screen.
>Thanks. I've read The Hobbit, TLOTR, and the Silmarillion many times--I >got TLOTR in one big thick volume for Christmas when I was 16, and >proceeded to read it all the way through, straight, twice. Love at >first sight, and I've never wavered.
>I'm a big fan of fairy stories in general--good ones, that is, ones that >follow the rules of the genre and take the story seriously, *as a >story*, and not merely a medium for politics, or artistic theory, or >score-settling.
>Tolkien's essays ]Mythopoeia' and 'On Fairy Stories' are a good way in, >for people who don't know the difference between a fairy story and a >straightforward fantasy on one hand, and a parody on the other. >[Hint: Spenser, Lord Dunsany, Charles Williams, Tolkien, Lewis, and >Peake, good, Marion Zimmer Bradley and Evangeline Walton, bad, Lloyd >Alexander, somewhere in between. I enjoyed some of Bradley's other >stuff back in the day, but her Arthuriad is a disaster--full of >gender-feminist axe-grinding and with no sense for the story whatsoever.
>#1 daughter went to Washington College, and her Tolkien professor there >has a web site with a bunch of canned lectures and stuff--it's called >TheTolkienProfessor.com, strange to tell. Good stuff if you're >interested in that sort of thing--very engaging and fun.
> I also like Homer, Virgil, and especially Dante, who is as good a >theologian as he is a poet, and is therefore very widely misunderstood. > Lots of folks only read the Inferno for the thrill, whereas the heart >of the Commedia is the Purgatorio and Paradiso. At one time I also >liked Norse sagas, but they kind of palled when I was 20 or so. It's >one of my life's regrets that I quit taking Latin in grade 9, and never >learned any Greek or Italian at all. I've been gradually learning >Middle English (one day I hope to be able to actually write it), and am >picking away at a little bit of Anglo-Saxon, though nothing serious. I >have a number of AS texts printed with the original on the left-hand >pages and a translation on the right. Plus I have all this fun >technical stuff to do, that I usually talk about here. So I rarely get >bored--except when watching moving pictures for longer than about 15 >minutes, which will do it every time.
>Cheers
>Phil Hobbs
If you like LoTR, you'd probably like the Lyoness trilogy by Jack Vance.
John Larkin wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:47:07 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>> George Herold wrote: >>> On Jul 29, 11:59 pm, Phil Hobbs >>> <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> George Herold wrote: >>>>> On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs >>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux >>>>>>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik >>>>>>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog >>>>>>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper >>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed >>>>>>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the >>>>>>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. >>>>>>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself >>>>>>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to >>>>>>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. >>>>>>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the >>>>>>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a >>>>>>>>> few weeks. >>>>>>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch >>>>>>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The >>>>>>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. >>>>>>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got >>>>>>>> no answer from them either about it. >>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're >>>>>>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I >>>>>>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately >>>>>>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before >>>>>>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to >>>>>>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students >>>>>>> breaking concrete beams. >>>>>>> John >>>>>> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry. >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle >>>>>> again. Brilliant.) >>>>> What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at >>>>> the TV? >>>>> George H. >>>> I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. >>>> (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because >>>> there haven't been any good ones lately.) >>> If I were going to pick one movie to see from your 20+ year hiatus it >>> would be Peter Jackson’s “Lord of the Rings”. (Assuming you have read >>> the books.) Quite a work of love for many involved, and made for a >>> BIG screen. >> Thanks. I've read The Hobbit, TLOTR, and the Silmarillion many times--I >> got TLOTR in one big thick volume for Christmas when I was 16, and >> proceeded to read it all the way through, straight, twice. Love at >> first sight, and I've never wavered.
>> I'm a big fan of fairy stories in general--good ones, that is, ones that >> follow the rules of the genre and take the story seriously, *as a >> story*, and not merely a medium for politics, or artistic theory, or >> score-settling.
>> Tolkien's essays ]Mythopoeia' and 'On Fairy Stories' are a good way in, >> for people who don't know the difference between a fairy story and a >> straightforward fantasy on one hand, and a parody on the other. >> [Hint: Spenser, Lord Dunsany, Charles Williams, Tolkien, Lewis, and >> Peake, good, Marion Zimmer Bradley and Evangeline Walton, bad, Lloyd >> Alexander, somewhere in between. I enjoyed some of Bradley's other >> stuff back in the day, but her Arthuriad is a disaster--full of >> gender-feminist axe-grinding and with no sense for the story whatsoever.
>> #1 daughter went to Washington College, and her Tolkien professor there >> has a web site with a bunch of canned lectures and stuff--it's called >> TheTolkienProfessor.com, strange to tell. Good stuff if you're >> interested in that sort of thing--very engaging and fun.
>> I also like Homer, Virgil, and especially Dante, who is as good a >> theologian as he is a poet, and is therefore very widely misunderstood. >> Lots of folks only read the Inferno for the thrill, whereas the heart >> of the Commedia is the Purgatorio and Paradiso. At one time I also >> liked Norse sagas, but they kind of palled when I was 20 or so. It's >> one of my life's regrets that I quit taking Latin in grade 9, and never >> learned any Greek or Italian at all. I've been gradually learning >> Middle English (one day I hope to be able to actually write it), and am >> picking away at a little bit of Anglo-Saxon, though nothing serious. I >> have a number of AS texts printed with the original on the left-hand >> pages and a translation on the right. Plus I have all this fun >> technical stuff to do, that I usually talk about here. So I rarely get >> bored--except when watching moving pictures for longer than about 15 >> minutes, which will do it every time.
>> Cheers
>> Phil Hobbs
> If you like LoTR, you'd probably like the Lyoness trilogy by Jack > Vance.
I know Wodehouse well--one of my favourite W. quotes is "she's not the kind of breathtaker that takes the breath."
I'll look at the others, thanks. I read a bunch of Vance's SF when I was young, but nothing of his in the last 25 years or so.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
> <jack_sheph...@cox.net> wrote: > >On Jul 26, 4:20 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote: > >> >>>I said that charges can > >> >>>generate force, many times now, including just above.
> >> >>--- > >> >>Sure, _now_ you say it because you realized you were wrong at first > >> >>and now you're trying to spin it as though you never said otherwise > >> >>and the error never existed. > >> >>---
> >> >>I said that chargs IS NOT force, and that a coulomb is not a measure > >> >>of force.
> >> >>--- > >> >>The former is true, but not the latter, in the same sense that an > >> >>ampere _can_ be used as a measure of length.
> >> >AlwaysWrong has another new friend!
> >> --- > >> I'd sit down and have a beer or shoot a game of pool with him anytime, > >> so it's not a new friendship, and an ampere _can_ be used as a measure > >> of length in a similar way that charge can be used as a measure of > >> force.
> >> I outlined the procedure for current in an earlier post, to which you > >> replied, but couldn't refute, so your gratuitous attempt at casting me > >> in an unfavorable light by associating me with one whom you've labeled > >> "untouchable" was, obviously, just more smoke and mirrors behind which > >> you always try to hide.
> >> Are you ever real or are you, somehow, forced to perpetually play the > >> game of "My dick's bigger than yours?"
> > I did no such thing. I merely ststed that they are doing the > >program > >still and that it has higher efficacy than the last band of nay sayers > >gave it. That was all and nothing more. Sprinkling in a joke about > >charge seems to get everyone charged up. Not me. Take a look. > > Did you even visit the site?
> > Jeez. When I am mean at folks you are silent, but when I try to say > >something nice, you too jump on the "He's a UPO" > >(Unidentified Posting Object) Bandwagon. Jeez. Let it go already. > >I never said a damned thing about my humongous dick. :-)
> --- > The "dick size" thing was directed at Larkin.
<pomer...@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Jul 30, 6:35 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote: >> On Jul 29, 11:59 pm, Phil Hobbs
>> <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> > George Herold wrote: >> > > On Jul 29, 11:46 am, Phil Hobbs >> > > <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> > >> John Larkin wrote: >> > >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:10:41 +0100, John Devereux >> > >>> <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: >> > >>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes: >> > >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:38:51 +0300 (EEST), Okkim Atnarivik >> > >>>>> <Okkim.Atnari...@twentyfout.fi.invalid> wrote: >> > >>>>>> John Larkin <jjlar...@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: >> > >>>>>> : Do thermals matter to you? Latching relays are fabulous. As analog >> > >>>>>> : switches, no semiconductor comes close. We recently measured the wiper >> > >>>>>> Interestingly, in the LHe temperature OptoMOS switches can be closed >> > >>>>>> but not opened. Switch-off relies on the charge leaking away from the >> > >>>>>> MOSFET gate, and this leak obviously freezes. >> > >>>>> Maybe you're just not waiting long enough. A 2N7002 will keep itself >> > >>>>> on or off, gate floating, for days. A cryo temps, that might extend to >> > >>>>> a few million years. I'm impressed that they work at all. >> > >>>>> Possibly they use a silicon resisor for the pulldown, and the >> > >>>>> resistance goes way, way up when it's cold. So it might turn off in a >> > >>>>> few weeks. >> > >>>>> Optomos SSRs are great signal switches too. I recently blew up a bunch >> > >>>>> of Clare parts, to find their voltage:current destruct limits. The >> > >>>>> datasheets are horrible about that. >> > >>>> Yes, pathetic for something clearly intended as an I/O component. I got >> > >>>> no answer from them either about it. >> > >>>> [...] >> > >>> I have some crude point-of-destruction SOAR graphs if you're >> > >>> interested, on their CPC1008N part. After blowing a bunch up, I >> > >>> learned that you can look at waveforms and pretty accurately >> > >>> anticipate second breakdown (or whatever makes them fail) just before >> > >>> it happens. Plotting graphs is much faster when you don't have to >> > >>> replace the part every data point, like the civil engineering students >> > >>> breaking concrete beams. >> > >>> John >> > >> It's amazing that they remain civil--I mean, War between the States, sorry.
>> > >> Cheers
>> > >> Phil Hobbs
>> > >> (Recently saw the Confederate Correct-orrr episode of Rocky & Bullwinkle >> > >> again. Brilliant.)
>> > > What? Phil I thought your nose was always in a book, not pointed at >> > > the TV?
>> > > George H.
>> > I don't watch TV or movies normally, but I'm not ideological about it. >> > (Of course the last movie I watched was in 1987, but that's because >> > there haven't been any good ones lately.)
>> If I were going to pick one movie to see from your 20+ year hiatus it >> would be Peter Jackson’s “Lord of the Rings”. (Assuming you have read >> the books.) Quite a work of love for many involved, and made for a >> BIG screen.
>I fell asleep in all three.
>Beautiful Mind, Schindler's List, Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby all >won Academy Awards in that period and are on my must-see list.
Interesting how tastes differ. Those are real-world, here-and-now dramas. The other stuff is spaceships, wizards, distant fantasy.
>>>>(I'm just tired of the snipping back and forth... I should have just >>>>kept my mouth shut and moved on.)
>>>>George H.
>>>>> John- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>Just try injecting technical riffs - braininstorming in public - into >>>the hen-clucking OT personal rants. Not only does that steer us back >>>on topic, it annoys the hell out of some people who really deserve >>>being annoyed.
>>--- >>Like this one?:
>>I am so sick of grey, white, black, silver, and repulsive >>pearl-colored cars. You can drive for blocks around here and see >>nothing but asphalt-colored cars. When I saw that true-red Audi for >>sale, I had to have it.
>>That Mercedes is a decent shade of red, sort of arterial blood color. >>I've started to see a few new cars on the street that are actual >>colors, not just midnight blue or mud red, but *colors*. Maybe things >>are turning around.
>>Those Germans sure know how to make cars. 0-60 in 3.7 seconds isn't >>bad at all. That's 0.75 Gs, if I did the math right.
>>John
>>or this one?:
>>Nobody is going to do anything serious about CO2. And maybe we >>shouldn't anyhow.
>Given the well known issues with getting realistic data from SPICE >which has well calibrated and tested models, do you really want to >trust anybody making climate predictions with models whose very theory >is suspect as well? Particularly when there is no track record of >model testability or calibratability?
Particulates aren't "climate predictions." They are soot that is real, can be measured, causes health problems, and melts ice. And could be reduced a lot, soon, if diesels, coal fired power plants, and things like aluminum smelters were cleaned up.
>> <jack_sheph...@cox.net> wrote: >> >On Jul 26, 4:20 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote: >> >> >>>I said that charges can >> >> >>>generate force, many times now, including just above.
>> >> >>--- >> >> >>Sure, _now_ you say it because you realized you were wrong at first >> >> >>and now you're trying to spin it as though you never said otherwise >> >> >>and the error never existed. >> >> >>---
>> >> >>I said that chargs IS NOT force, and that a coulomb is not a measure >> >> >>of force.
>> >> >>--- >> >> >>The former is true, but not the latter, in the same sense that an >> >> >>ampere _can_ be used as a measure of length.
>> >> >AlwaysWrong has another new friend!
>> >> --- >> >> I'd sit down and have a beer or shoot a game of pool with him anytime, >> >> so it's not a new friendship, and an ampere _can_ be used as a measure >> >> of length in a similar way that charge can be used as a measure of >> >> force.
>> >> I outlined the procedure for current in an earlier post, to which you >> >> replied, but couldn't refute, so your gratuitous attempt at casting me >> >> in an unfavorable light by associating me with one whom you've labeled >> >> "untouchable" was, obviously, just more smoke and mirrors behind which >> >> you always try to hide.
>> >> Are you ever real or are you, somehow, forced to perpetually play the >> >> game of "My dick's bigger than yours?"
>> > I did no such thing. I merely ststed that they are doing the >> >program >> >still and that it has higher efficacy than the last band of nay sayers >> >gave it. That was all and nothing more. Sprinkling in a joke about >> >charge seems to get everyone charged up. Not me. Take a look. >> > Did you even visit the site?
>> > Jeez. When I am mean at folks you are silent, but when I try to say >> >something nice, you too jump on the "He's a UPO" >> >(Unidentified Posting Object) Bandwagon. Jeez. Let it go already. >> >I never said a damned thing about my humongous dick. :-)
>> --- >> The "dick size" thing was directed at Larkin.
